until you are in Expert/Pro level cooling your gas would probably be the last thing to worry about - even if it works, which i have never heard of :shrug
question for the people who race..
hey,
1) I read that if you cool your gasoline it will give you an advantage for the first 10 minutes of a race.. Does any of you do this or is this only for the top top riders who need every edge they can get?
thanx
PS this is a little side question if someone can pm me the answer ( the first question is the main one
) , how does gyration work ? o mean you're in the air (cause its not like the ground where if u stopped the back wheel the front will come down because of momentum ) ? if you have a site i can read id appreciate it but i cant find one. ok im done :]
1) I read that if you cool your gasoline it will give you an advantage for the first 10 minutes of a race.. Does any of you do this or is this only for the top top riders who need every edge they can get?
thanx
PS this is a little side question if someone can pm me the answer ( the first question is the main one
) , how does gyration work ? o mean you're in the air (cause its not like the ground where if u stopped the back wheel the front will come down because of momentum ) ? if you have a site i can read id appreciate it but i cant find one. ok im done :]1 - 16 of 16 Posts
By the time you filled the gas tank to the time the starting gate dropped, the fuel would be the same temp as the guys on both sides of you on the line.
You can answer your own question by removing a wheel and an axel from any bike (even a bicycle), hold the axel in both hands and have someone give it a good spin. Now try to turn it sideways. This is the force we use to stay straight in the air.
You can answer your own question by removing a wheel and an axel from any bike (even a bicycle), hold the axel in both hands and have someone give it a good spin. Now try to turn it sideways. This is the force we use to stay straight in the air.
while your doing that experiment, stick your fingers in the spokes to simulate braking (not really) and notice the pull on your hand and the direction it goes... that is the force used to raise or lower the front end in the air.
Inertia is the 'energy' of motion (or lack of motion) or the resistance an object has to a change in its state of motion (based on mass).
Newton's first law of motion states that "An object at rest tends to stay at rest and an object in motion tends to stay in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force," that is, objects "tend to keep on doing what they're doing."
Newton's third law is: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
The inertia of the wheels parts is held in a circular pattern (not the 'same direction' referred to) by the 'force' of the spokes.
When you act on the inertia in a spinning tire, in the air or or not, there is an equal and opposite reaction... example- tire is stoped from rotating (action) bike is rotated with equal force (reaction.... less the energy lost to heat transfer)... The reason the bike doesn't spin around the tire in this instance is that the tire holds relatively little inertia compared to the bike (because of the mass diference)... hence the bike is just 'tilted' in the air.
BTW- your second question is far more intriguing than your first question- on the gas issue- if you cool your fuel it will likely run worse if anything. Fuel atomizes better the warmer it is. The better it atomizes the better it burns. Ever wonder why your engine runs like crap until it's warmed up? Thats why.
Inertia is the 'energy' of motion (or lack of motion) or the resistance an object has to a change in its state of motion (based on mass).
Newton's first law of motion states that "An object at rest tends to stay at rest and an object in motion tends to stay in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force," that is, objects "tend to keep on doing what they're doing."
Newton's third law is: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
The inertia of the wheels parts is held in a circular pattern (not the 'same direction' referred to) by the 'force' of the spokes.
When you act on the inertia in a spinning tire, in the air or or not, there is an equal and opposite reaction... example- tire is stoped from rotating (action) bike is rotated with equal force (reaction.... less the energy lost to heat transfer)... The reason the bike doesn't spin around the tire in this instance is that the tire holds relatively little inertia compared to the bike (because of the mass diference)... hence the bike is just 'tilted' in the air.
BTW- your second question is far more intriguing than your first question- on the gas issue- if you cool your fuel it will likely run worse if anything. Fuel atomizes better the warmer it is. The better it atomizes the better it burns. Ever wonder why your engine runs like crap until it's warmed up? Thats why.
The gas will get warm to soon as said above, don't try to put anything in there to keep it cold. The reason for this is the fact that the gas will be more dense when cold and it will mess up your jetting.
I've heard of the the gas cooling thing- It's an old school drag racing/ hotrodder trick, but I doubt it really works. Back in the day guys used to have cans mounted under the hoods of their cars in which they would put ice or dry ice.. It would have the fuel line inside coiled up, and as the fuel passed through, it would be cooled...
Did it work then? probably only marginally, and any advantage it gave was probably psychological.... will it work in your bike? - same thing... by the time you get your chilled gas into the tank and then to the starting gates, then to the actual race, it prabably wouldn't give you any advantage...
Now cold air on the other hand will.... How do you get cold air? ride in the winter!
Did it work then? probably only marginally, and any advantage it gave was probably psychological.... will it work in your bike? - same thing... by the time you get your chilled gas into the tank and then to the starting gates, then to the actual race, it prabably wouldn't give you any advantage...
Now cold air on the other hand will.... How do you get cold air? ride in the winter!
what do you mean sideways ? turn the wheel left and right or try to stop the tire and make it go the other way?
I think u meant stopping the tire in which do u mean stopping the tire will move my hand down and my hand is sorta like the bike? Example: when the brake pads stop the tire, since the bike is connected to the pads in a way, the pads will move down along with the bike??? I dont think ima getting this.. And also, making your back tire makes the bike come up, im sry people but i just dont get this lol i need a decriptive answer for a noobie lol thanx -
I think u meant stopping the tire in which do u mean stopping the tire will move my hand down and my hand is sorta like the bike? Example: when the brake pads stop the tire, since the bike is connected to the pads in a way, the pads will move down along with the bike??? I dont think ima getting this.. And also, making your back tire makes the bike come up, im sry people but i just dont get this lol i need a decriptive answer for a noobie lol thanx -
accelerating brings the rear down... braking with the rear brings the front down... I think you got it
i got what it does, but i dont really have how it works. I was reading for like four hours yesterday about precession on gyroscopes ( no im not a dork, once in a lifetime thing lol) , and with all this i dont get how all this works lol.. sorry guys i know ur answers give me a better idea of how it works but i still dont get it well.. is the reason the bike guys down is because the brake pads stop the tire and since the 'inertia' is stopped its transfered to the bike making it go down? i think i have that part but not making the rear go down.. i dont understand that lol
P.S. cold gas does give u an advantage for the first ten minutes, then yes is warms up, but you do get like 1 horsepower...
P.S. cold gas does give u an advantage for the first ten minutes, then yes is warms up, but you do get like 1 horsepower...
You seem to understand the front going down, now, making the rear go down is the same action, only in reverse, of making the front go down. When you accelerate, you are 'pushing' front of the bike upwards (or rear downwards depending on perspective) against the inertia of the wheel (which, in this case, wants to stay going slower)
The cold gas thing seems obsurd. The only thing it 'may' do is provide for more gas in the carb barrel. This holds no advantage, in fact a disadvantage if you were properly jetted before, without more air as well, and could be achieved with simply larger jets.
The fact is that fuel burns better when it has been warmed. Ever see a heat riser on an exhaust manifold? this is to HEAT the fuel mix so it will burn BETTER.
The cold gas thing seems obsurd. The only thing it 'may' do is provide for more gas in the carb barrel. This holds no advantage, in fact a disadvantage if you were properly jetted before, without more air as well, and could be achieved with simply larger jets.
The fact is that fuel burns better when it has been warmed. Ever see a heat riser on an exhaust manifold? this is to HEAT the fuel mix so it will burn BETTER.
Newton's third law is: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
so thats why the front goes up, becauase the back wheel is going forward, and since youare in the air its not on anything so the bike goes in the opposite direction to like canel out the 'gyration' or inertia of the back wheel... thats it right? and for the back it stops the inertia of the wheel so the bike spin forward... allll rrriiighhtt lol thanx to all the people who put up with all my questions lol...
about the cold gas, it only helps in high revs because the fuel is more unstable when hot i think so if its cool its more stable or something.. supposely it does help because they did an experiment on it...
so thats why the front goes up, becauase the back wheel is going forward, and since youare in the air its not on anything so the bike goes in the opposite direction to like canel out the 'gyration' or inertia of the back wheel... thats it right? and for the back it stops the inertia of the wheel so the bike spin forward... allll rrriiighhtt lol thanx to all the people who put up with all my questions lol...
about the cold gas, it only helps in high revs because the fuel is more unstable when hot i think so if its cool its more stable or something.. supposely it does help because they did an experiment on it...
you got it my friend... it's never a problem to explain something to someone who appreciates it and actualy listens... truly, my pleasure...
as for the gas thing.... got any links to this experiment or anything?.. where did you hear this? I would like to see what they came up with for an explaination for the increase.
as for the gas thing.... got any links to this experiment or anything?.. where did you hear this? I would like to see what they came up with for an explaination for the increase.
http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/readtopten.asp?id=38
thats for the cold gas...
PS gyration work on quads too right? i would say not as much cause they have more mass but they should tilt just as much beacuse two wheels = more inertia right?
thats for the cold gas...
PS gyration work on quads too right? i would say not as much cause they have more mass but they should tilt just as much beacuse two wheels = more inertia right?
there is a rule in MotoGP that the bikes cant have a fuel cooling system.... not that GP bike rules apply, but it makes me wonder about the whole cooler gas in 4 strokes (the test in the link was a ktm 125sx).
thank you for the link... exactly what I wanted.. not rumor and inuendo, but solid dyno tests... you're the man... I humbly stand corrected (but not by much I must say)
haha thanx for helping me out tho once again... although getting that link again was not easy lol
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