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We've been beating some of these topics to death, including this one, but here's the cut and dried question:

Are the "economically disadvantaged" in general lazier than others?

Did they choose to be poor, or choose not to work hard enough to make good money? Do you think most are just not as bright? We can't really do one big swoop of judgment, so I'll give you what I think the percentage breakdown is of the truly poor, and you tell me what you think, and why.

Those who favor a "more equitable distribution of wealth" feel free to explain why. I'll quickly tell you why I am against it in a while.

I think the poor breaks down like this:

65% are choosing not to pursue higher education and better jobs, due to feelings of hopelessness, laziness, stupid-ness, etc. They are stuck in a rut, and seeing no immediate way out, they resign themselves to the rut. They are eithernot smart enough to get up that ladder, lazy, drinkers, druggers, or some other sort of shifty.

15% genuinely mentally or physically handicapped to the point of preventing the people from financial success. (I think other disabilities are not preventing success, just making the road a harder one to travel)

20% misc. the dreamers, the hippies and idealists.

As far as climbing the economic ladder, there's not room on it for all of us anyhow, so, I guess some have to fall off...
 

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excessa said:

20% misc. the dreamers, the hippies and idealists.

As far as climbing the economic ladder, there's not room on it for all of us anyhow, so, I guess some have to fall off...
:hi

I realize this doesn't answer your question and that I'm not truly poor poor... but I'm kind of a dreamer...

One of these days I'll realize that dream though.

and money never really mattered much to me.
 

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excessa said:

Are the "economically disadvantaged" in general lazier than others?


65% are choosing not to pursue higher education and better jobs, due to feelings of hopelessness, laziness, stupid-ness, etc. They are stuck in a rut, and seeing no immediate way out, they resign themselves to the rut. They are eithernot smart enough to get up that ladder, lazy, drinkers, druggers, or some other sort of shifty.

As far as climbing the economic ladder, there's not room on it for all of us anyhow, so, I guess some have to fall off...
I'd say it's probably over 75%, on the generous side.
And you're right about your last statement, there's not enough room for everyone at the top....but there are those of us who do the climb....and get there or close to it..and those who stay at the bottom of the pyramid and bitch about it....(again due to their own lack of drive)

The extreme liberal-minded argue that they should receive more and the rich should be punished. They are nothing more than street peddlers stripped to the core. Peddlers dressed in suits.

As for the disabled, that is a different issue all together, I have no problem helping out veterans, or physically handicapped people. But most of those peddlers do not fit into that criteria.
 

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excessa said:
....Are the "economically disadvantaged" in general lazier than others?

Did they choose to be poor, or choose not to work hard enough to make good money? Do you think most are just not as bright? We can't really do one big swoop of judgment, so I'll give you what I think the percentage breakdown is of the truly poor, and you tell me what you think, and why.

Those who favor a "more equitable distribution of wealth" feel free to explain why. I'll quickly tell you why I am against it in a while....
Well, the poor around here are basically generation poor. Growing up in generations of poverty deliberately imposed on them by the employers of past generations. Many times, they have to work before finishing school, so lots of people don't even have a GED.

These people aren't lazy, but in a world where getting a decent job requires enough education/skills to be of value, many of them just don't have enough to get the jobs. They're also too poor to move away from the area to someplace else and be able to survive long enough to get a job.

In time, these people just come to accept their lot in life and stop trying. You actually have to build up their self-estem so that they will apply themselves to a better dream for the future.

Some are lazy, but not because they want to be lazy....they've just been brought up to see it as acceptable behavior.

I'm not for "equitable distribution" of wealth since it takes away the incentive for working hard for personal gain, but I do think for all the $$$ we blow on pointless programs, we could ensure basic needs and skills training is easily available to the masses.
 

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I share Excessa's opinion on this topic and touched on it a bit during the thread titled "Conservative Beatitudes".

lawdog said:
....I said what I said is because it seems that some people that lean to the left attach some sort of nobility to being poor. They seem to think that everyone who is poor is a victim of circumstances that are beyond their control. IMO very few poor people are poor because of forces beyond their control.

In my personal experience I find that a great deal of people who I meet that are poor are so because they turned their back on opportunities life offered them. Things like a free education, trade schools, or job training. Many never prepared for the future. They live to party. A lot dropped out of school and most made bad life choices.

Bad choices like dropping out of school, having children at too young of an age, having too many children, getting involved in crime and becoming addicted to alcohol or drugs....
I believe this country provides you with all the opportunities one needs to succeed. You just have to seek out the opportunities and work for it. I see too many young people just living for the next weekend and not giving any thought about where they want to be in the next 5-10 years.
 

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I have family members that are poor and I mean poor...they are poor because they are just plain lazy. One family member has been on welfare for 20+ years. She has been given plenty of opportunities to better herself but chose not too.

I think sometimes people just lack motivation and initiative. I've always wondered why some people are more motivated than others. I also think some people just don't care and would rather take the easy way out instead of trying.
 

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I know this is a non-scientific opinion but for what I see on a day to day basis it seems like 10% of the population use 90% of our government resources (welfare/police/medical/courts/jails). This 10% repeatedly make bad life decisions that the 90% of us have to pay for.

Granted my opinion maybe a bit bias because of the people I meet and deal with. But I end up meeting the same people over and over again, hence the opinion.

Here is the cliff notes version of a recent example that I witnessed about the bad life decisions people make and what it cost the rest of us.

One of my last days at work I was looking for two fugitives wanted for operating a methamphetamine lab. Well my partner and I went to a residence that they were thought to be hiding out at. Long story short I end up discovering a functioning methamphetamine lab in this residence as well.

The woman who controlled/ lived in this residence had three kids between the ages of about 3 to 7 years old. All of them sleeping right above the lab. Two of the kids where sleeping on the floor and while one was sleeping on a bench seat from a mini van.

So we ended up arresting the woman the lived there and a man in the basement that was found with the lab. A short time later we also found the two fugitives that we were looking for. Now to get to the point I am trying to make. All four of these persons are in their early to mid twenties and none of them work. Between three of the four of them, they have have a total EIGHT kids.

Now to top it off. The next day my partner was at local event and he runs into a social worker. This social worker knew about the recent arrests and tells my partner that it looks like they have both been dealing with the same clientele. The social worker explains to him that the older brother of the guy we found in the basement is currently in jail awaiting trial for sodomizing the three kids that were in the home where the lab was found.:mad

Now I am not attempting to equate the above tale as an example of all of who are poor and on welfare. I just think that something needs to be changed with how we give out aid. I think there is something to the saying that, "An idle mind is the Devil's playground".

I would like to see something like the CCC brought back. Something where people could work for the aid they receive. It would give them something to fill their days with as well of the pride that comes from working. I hope I didn't venture too far off topic as I see it as related to the main spirit of this thread. I am just thinking the current status quo isn't working.
 

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lawdog said:
....Now I am not attempting to equate the above tale as an example of all of who are poor and on welfare. I just think that something needs to be changed with how we give out aid. I think there is something to the saying that, "An idle mind is the Devil's playground"....
Well, since my new job deals with "welfare" of a sort, I can tell you this....

We're not allowed by Federal Regulation to determine who "deserves" assistance and who does not. If they qualify, they get the assistance, no matter how we feel about it.

We can, however, try to screen out people.

We're hoping to develop a mandatory orientation process to dissuade people from asking for assistance unless they are really motivated to use it to better themselves.

We're also able to kick people out of the program if they screw off and get bad grades or fail training.

Problem is, if we kick them out, it's a "negative exit" which makes our performance look bad and impacts if we keep getting money to help people. :rolleyes A dumb factor since the rules say we can't turn away the people we believe are not going to finish the program in the first place. :rolleyes
 

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Excessa - once again you've captured the thoughts from my head and transposed them into text. :thumb

I agree completely although Vstar may be right - that percentage may even be higher.

But.....how DARE you say such a thing.....you must be a cold-hearted republican... :rolleyes
 

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Baby Gorilla said:

Some are lazy, but not because they want to be lazy....they've just been brought up to see it as acceptable behavior.

+1 I agree...many times a person is a product of their environment.
 

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Enthalpy said:
Most people do not remain in one earnings bracket their entire lives.

[/URL]
True 'dat. Can you believe i used to get by on $0.25/week when i was in grade school :eek Now i'm making, like, twice that!


...dave
:redcreep
 

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Baby Gorilla said:
Problem is, if we kick them out, it's a "negative exit" which makes our performance look bad and impacts if we keep getting money to help people. :rolleyes A dumb factor since the rules say we can't turn away the people we believe are not going to finish the program in the first place. :rolleyes
That is dumb that it would reflect badly on your agency.
 

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Well, the goal it to empower people to overcome barriers to entering the workforce and getting them not just a job, but a better job than when they came in.

Around SW Virginia, the latter part of that is hard enough at times.

The idiots who created the evaluation standards presume that we have the ability to make someone succeed. We can train them, help them, enourage them, but only they can make it happen, and if someone is a welfare leach, yes, we can kick them out, but it makes us look bad. :rolleyes
 

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Good Lord Almighty I hope and pray I don't stay in this earnings bracket the rest of my life!!!!!
 
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